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    Thread: Lower PH with Baking Soda - how?

    1. #1
      Steve Nguyen's Avatar
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      Lower PH with Baking Soda - how?

      my new water source has pH of 9+ I am looking for economic way to reduce pH reading. I recall someone mentioned using baking soda in past but can't locate the thread. Anyhow, what's the formula of using baking soda for 4000 gals pond?

      I also read somewhere that vinegar is another good solution but I have no clue how the formula works. thanks!

      Steve

    2. #2
      dick benbow's Avatar
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      baking soda stabilizes the ph thru enhancement of KH at 8.3......Roddy might have a formular, I don't have at my fingertips.

      Most use Hydrocloric Acid (Muratic) over vinegar.My experience has been messing with
      PH values with a monitored acid drip method to be a constant strain of monitoring. Would like to see you raise the KH with baking soda.8.3's not perfect but better than 9... Why don't you drop Roddy a PM and try that route first.....
      Dick Benbow
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    3. #3
      Steve Nguyen's Avatar
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      Thanks, TKC!

      I asked Roddy to add his comments to this thread so others can learn as well.

      Steve

    4. #4
      Cowiche Ponder's Avatar
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      Steve have you tested the source water after aerating overnight? gassing off can change the ph

      Quote Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen View Post
      my new water source has pH of 9+ I am looking for economic way to reduce pH reading. I recall someone mentioned using baking soda in past but can't locate the thread. Anyhow, what's the formula of using baking soda for 4000 gals pond?

      I also read somewhere that vinegar is another good solution but I have no clue how the formula works. thanks!

      Steve

    5. #5
      Steve Nguyen's Avatar
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      Hi Mary,

      It's been about a month old but today was the first time I checked the pH reading. I will check again tomorrow to see if anything change. thx

      Steve

      Quote Originally Posted by Cowiche Ponder View Post
      Steve have you tested the source water after aerating overnight? gassing off can change the ph

    6. #6
      graybird's Avatar
      graybird is offline Senior Member ~ WWKC BOD
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      I would definitely go the BS route rather than muriatic or powdered pond acid. Had some unfortunate occurrences in my early pondkeeping days trying to chase a 7.0 pH per instructions from someone who should have known better.
      Mary

    7. #7
      CHICHI's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen View Post
      Hi Mary,

      It's been about a month old but today was the first time I checked the pH reading. I will check again tomorrow to see if anything change. thx

      Steve
      Hi Steve ..

      My PH through Photsynthesis Diurnally has hit 10 at times and no amount of BS short of 35 dH KH Points would bring it back to 8.3

      Discontinue Aeration during the Daytime would be my advice and if you have "Green Water" or String Algae Eliminate these asap ..

      Concrete and Mortar Leeching into the Water in New Systems can also increase PH

    8. #8
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      Gloria L had a similar problem. Maybe she would remember the time frame and could find the thread.
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    9. #9
      Steve Nguyen's Avatar
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      Hi Mary,

      It's a liner pond, plus water is just about to show some sight of green color. I have not bring the UV light from the old pond to new pond yet. I still have most of my fish over the old pond. I waiting for the new pond to establish first before transfer all the fish over to new pond. Anyhow, do you have the formula for using BS? I want to get it a try. thx

      Steve




      Quote Originally Posted by CHICHI View Post
      Hi Steve ..

      My PH through Photsynthesis Diurnally has hit 10 at times and no amount of BS short of 35 dH KH Points would bring it back to 8.3

      Discontinue Aeration during the Daytime would be my advice and if you have "Green Water" or String Algae Eliminate these asap ..

      Concrete and Mortar Leeching into the Water in New Systems can also increase PH

    10. #10
      Steve Nguyen's Avatar
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      Hi Mary,

      I have a friend who regularly use muriatic to lower pH. His fish looked ok but I prefer not to take the muriatic route. my goal is to get pH to lower 8.x reading. I am not that nut about chasing after the best scenario for my fish.

      Steve


      Quote Originally Posted by graybird View Post
      I would definitely go the BS route rather than muriatic or powdered pond acid. Had some unfortunate occurrences in my early pondkeeping days trying to chase a 7.0 pH per instructions from someone who should have known better.

    11. #11
      Steve Nguyen's Avatar
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      I think we need to do better in title the threads in future so it's easier to search. do a search for "baking soda" on thread name and there are more than 500 pages of hits.

      Steve


      Quote Originally Posted by Joey S View Post
      Gloria L had a similar problem. Maybe she would remember the time frame and could find the thread.

    12. #12
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      When there is a strong algae bloom, the pH has a significant variation with time of day, since plants produce acid at night and consume acid in the daylight hours. So if there is an algae bloom, the pH will maximize at sunset and minimize at sunrise. In my own ponds, when I had a green algae bloom (before UV lights and trickle tower filters!), the pH would dependably be 5 at sunrise and 10.5 to 11 at sunset. When this occurs, massive addition of baking soda can sometimes reduce the pH bounce somewhat, but not eliminate it.

      So if you have a significant algae issue, you must first measure five things before making any decision about pH control:

      1. pH near sunrise
      2. pH near sunset
      3. KH or total alkalinity at sunrise
      4. KH or total alkalinity at sunset
      5. GH at sunset

      If total alkalinity is below 100 ppm (morning and evening) and pH is dependably high (morning and evening), first add one pound of baking soda per 1000 gallons, wait a day, then add one pound of calcium chloride flake per 1000 gallons. This should stabilize pH near 8.3 in the absence of a bad algae bloom.

      If there is a bad green water algae bloom, then installing sufficient UV light capacity should solve the green water algae bloom and the pH bounce.

      If there is a bad string algae bloom (frequently the case in Spring ponding, particularly in May), add sufficient hydrogen peroxide to bring the string algae under control and the pH bounce will stop.
      Last edited by Roddy Conrad; 05-25-2009 at 08:09 PM.
      Still working at a big chemical plant full time at age 74 now. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi.

    13. #13
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      Great post Roddy.

      I'd like to hear more about the new source water. Where is it from? Have you had it tested?

      Brad










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    14. #14
      Steve Nguyen's Avatar
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      Thank you, Roddy. I measured pH this morning and it's 9.1 reading. Will measure at sunset as you suggested.

      Brad, good suggestion. I tested the pH of tab water and it's 8.0 reading which is the same as my old home. Must be the green water then. Let me eliminate that first and take more reading later after water clear up.

      Steve


      Quote Originally Posted by six6guy View Post
      Great post Roddy.

      I'd like to hear more about the new source water. Where is it from? Have you had it tested?

      Brad

    15. #15
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      I have had a high ph for a while as well. I get 9 out of the tap 8.6 -9 in the pond. I get a 0 for gh no matter what test kit I try and a kh of 55(3 drops) in the pond. Here is some extra in info for the sf bay area
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    16. #16
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Low GH will frequently give high pH and terrible koi coloration as well. If the GH is zero, add one pound of calcium chloride flake and one pound of Epsom salt per 1000 gallons and watch the pH drop and the koi coloration improve tremendously.
      Still working at a big chemical plant full time at age 74 now. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi.

    17. #17
      Roddy Conrad's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen View Post
      Thank you, Roddy. I measured pH this morning and it's 9.1 reading. Will measure at sunset as you suggested.

      Brad, good suggestion. I tested the pH of tab water and it's 8.0 reading which is the same as my old home. Must be the green water then. Let me eliminate that first and take more reading later after water clear up.

      Steve
      If the pH is already 9 at sunrise, you probably need some calcium chloride flake to bring pH down and stabilize it. I suggest a pound per 1000 gallons, if you see the water turn white that is a good thing because calcium carbonate is precipitating which is how soluble calcium drops pH of a pond. The milky water after addition of calcium chloride flake to a pond with high pH should clear in one to two days, at that point pH should be well below 9.
      Still working at a big chemical plant full time at age 74 now. Still using potassium permanganate to regularly clean up the pond and the koi.

    18. #18
      necjeb is offline Senior Member
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      I also have high ph atleast 9.0. tap is 7.5 at first but with a little air shoots right up. How often would these need to be added to keep the ph below ?

    19. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by necjeb View Post
      I also have high ph atleast 9.0. tap is 7.5 at first but with a little air shoots right up. How often would these need to be added to keep the ph below ?

      If your Supply Water has an acceptable PH (which mine didn`t) when My Pond Water hit 10 then removing the causes of CO2 depletion diurnally such as turning off the Air Killing all the Algae and reducing Pollutants to as close to zero as is feasible along with partial Shading will help ..

      I tried buffering both the GH and KH (up to 10+17 respectively ) but it still took 35 KH dH points to bring the PH back to 8.3 which was a completely unacceptable level of both Alkalinity and Hardness to me ..

      There are always Phyta present in Water even Tap Water which significantly influence PH

      Replacing the Water via a Flow Thru continuously for me kept my PH in line with Source ..

      Soft Water is the by far best Environment for Fresh Water Fish Per Se Koi especially with if possible a neutral PH

      The Worlds Rivers and Waterways (other than Tanganyika) are for a fact Soft Only Marine species otherwise are found in an 8 + PH with this in mind the closer we can achieve Pond Water Values to those found in Nature the better these will be for the Colour Growth and more importantly Health of all our Aquatic Pets

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      http://www.cichlid-forum.com/article...ast_africa.php

    20. #20
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      I am am so tempted to setup a water softener for this pond. I think it's the way to grow fish here since hard water is line 20 ppm here.

      Steve

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