Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: Lower PH with Baking Soda - how?

  1. #1
    Steve Nguyen's Avatar
    Steve Nguyen is offline
    Steve Nguyen
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    1,236

    Lower PH with Baking Soda - how?

    my new water source has pH of 9+ I am looking for economic way to reduce pH reading. I recall someone mentioned using baking soda in past but can't locate the thread. Anyhow, what's the formula of using baking soda for 4000 gals pond?

    I also read somewhere that vinegar is another good solution but I have no clue how the formula works. thanks!

    Steve

  2. #2
    dick benbow's Avatar
    dick benbow is offline
    dick benbow
    has not specified a status.
    "The Koi Coach"
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Seattle, Wa
    Posts
    4,812
    baking soda stabilizes the ph thru enhancement of KH at 8.3......Roddy might have a formular, I don't have at my fingertips.

    Most use Hydrocloric Acid (Muratic) over vinegar.My experience has been messing with
    PH values with a monitored acid drip method to be a constant strain of monitoring. Would like to see you raise the KH with baking soda.8.3's not perfect but better than 9... Why don't you drop Roddy a PM and try that route first.....
    Dick Benbow
    "The Koi Coach"
    member Team Purdin

  3. #3
    Steve Nguyen's Avatar
    Steve Nguyen is offline
    Steve Nguyen
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    1,236
    Thanks, TKC!

    I asked Roddy to add his comments to this thread so others can learn as well.

    Steve

  4. #4
    Cowiche Ponder's Avatar
    Cowiche Ponder is offline
    Cowiche Ponder
    happy to have a fish pond again
    Living my life's dream
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cowiche, WA
    Posts
    20,893
    Steve have you tested the source water after aerating overnight? gassing off can change the ph

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen View Post
    my new water source has pH of 9+ I am looking for economic way to reduce pH reading. I recall someone mentioned using baking soda in past but can't locate the thread. Anyhow, what's the formula of using baking soda for 4000 gals pond?

    I also read somewhere that vinegar is another good solution but I have no clue how the formula works. thanks!

    Steve

  5. #5
    Steve Nguyen's Avatar
    Steve Nguyen is offline
    Steve Nguyen
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    1,236
    Hi Mary,

    It's been about a month old but today was the first time I checked the pH reading. I will check again tomorrow to see if anything change. thx

    Steve

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowiche Ponder View Post
    Steve have you tested the source water after aerating overnight? gassing off can change the ph

  6. #6
    graybird's Avatar
    graybird is offline
    graybird
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Marin County, CA
    Posts
    1,119
    I would definitely go the BS route rather than muriatic or powdered pond acid. Had some unfortunate occurrences in my early pondkeeping days trying to chase a 7.0 pH per instructions from someone who should have known better.
    Mary

  7. #7
    CHICHI's Avatar
    CHICHI is offline
    CHICHI
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,836
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen View Post
    Hi Mary,

    It's been about a month old but today was the first time I checked the pH reading. I will check again tomorrow to see if anything change. thx

    Steve
    Hi Steve ..

    My PH through Photsynthesis Diurnally has hit 10 at times and no amount of BS short of 35 dH KH Points would bring it back to 8.3

    Discontinue Aeration during the Daytime would be my advice and if you have "Green Water" or String Algae Eliminate these asap ..

    Concrete and Mortar Leeching into the Water in New Systems can also increase PH

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    23,130
    Gloria L had a similar problem. Maybe she would remember the time frame and could find the thread.
    For the love of Koi
    Don't Sweat the Small Stuff

    Click for Jacksonville, Florida Forecast



    Lifetime Charter Diamond Member #4 WWKC

    JOIN THE WorldWide Koi Club NOW



    Certified Koi Keeper (CKK)

  9. #9
    Steve Nguyen's Avatar
    Steve Nguyen is offline
    Steve Nguyen
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    1,236
    Hi Mary,

    It's a liner pond, plus water is just about to show some sight of green color. I have not bring the UV light from the old pond to new pond yet. I still have most of my fish over the old pond. I waiting for the new pond to establish first before transfer all the fish over to new pond. Anyhow, do you have the formula for using BS? I want to get it a try. thx

    Steve




    Quote Originally Posted by CHICHI View Post
    Hi Steve ..

    My PH through Photsynthesis Diurnally has hit 10 at times and no amount of BS short of 35 dH KH Points would bring it back to 8.3

    Discontinue Aeration during the Daytime would be my advice and if you have "Green Water" or String Algae Eliminate these asap ..

    Concrete and Mortar Leeching into the Water in New Systems can also increase PH

  10. #10
    Steve Nguyen's Avatar
    Steve Nguyen is offline
    Steve Nguyen
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    1,236
    Hi Mary,

    I have a friend who regularly use muriatic to lower pH. His fish looked ok but I prefer not to take the muriatic route. my goal is to get pH to lower 8.x reading. I am not that nut about chasing after the best scenario for my fish.

    Steve


    Quote Originally Posted by graybird View Post
    I would definitely go the BS route rather than muriatic or powdered pond acid. Had some unfortunate occurrences in my early pondkeeping days trying to chase a 7.0 pH per instructions from someone who should have known better.

  11. #11
    Steve Nguyen's Avatar
    Steve Nguyen is offline
    Steve Nguyen
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    1,236
    I think we need to do better in title the threads in future so it's easier to search. do a search for "baking soda" on thread name and there are more than 500 pages of hits.

    Steve


    Quote Originally Posted by Joey S View Post
    Gloria L had a similar problem. Maybe she would remember the time frame and could find the thread.

  12. #12
    Roddy Conrad's Avatar
    Roddy Conrad is offline
    Roddy Conrad
    has not specified a status.
    The Koiphen Chemist
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Charleston, WV, USA
    Posts
    3,211
    When there is a strong algae bloom, the pH has a significant variation with time of day, since plants produce acid at night and consume acid in the daylight hours. So if there is an algae bloom, the pH will maximize at sunset and minimize at sunrise. In my own ponds, when I had a green algae bloom (before UV lights and trickle tower filters!), the pH would dependably be 5 at sunrise and 10.5 to 11 at sunset. When this occurs, massive addition of baking soda can sometimes reduce the pH bounce somewhat, but not eliminate it.

    So if you have a significant algae issue, you must first measure five things before making any decision about pH control:

    1. pH near sunrise
    2. pH near sunset
    3. KH or total alkalinity at sunrise
    4. KH or total alkalinity at sunset
    5. GH at sunset

    If total alkalinity is below 100 ppm (morning and evening) and pH is dependably high (morning and evening), first add one pound of baking soda per 1000 gallons, wait a day, then add one pound of calcium chloride flake per 1000 gallons. This should stabilize pH near 8.3 in the absence of a bad algae bloom.

    If there is a bad green water algae bloom, then installing sufficient UV light capacity should solve the green water algae bloom and the pH bounce.

    If there is a bad string algae bloom (frequently the case in Spring ponding, particularly in May), add sufficient hydrogen peroxide to bring the string algae under control and the pH bounce will stop.
    Last edited by Roddy Conrad; 05-25-2009 at 07:09 PM.
    President Truman said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." And he said if you want a friend on the AKCA board, better take your dog to the board meeting with you.

  13. #13
    six6guy's Avatar
    six6guy is offline
    six6guy
    is home and tring to work less hours
    Bumbles Well
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Reseda, CA
    Posts
    8,285
    Great post Roddy.

    I'd like to hear more about the new source water. Where is it from? Have you had it tested?

    Brad










    "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
    Albert Einstein

    Bradley W. Olin
    newest member of EIHIOICGI





    My pond stuff can be found at...

    My Pond Build
    My QT Build
    My CC-FF Build
    My Active Carbon Filters

  14. #14
    Steve Nguyen's Avatar
    Steve Nguyen is offline
    Steve Nguyen
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    1,236
    Thank you, Roddy. I measured pH this morning and it's 9.1 reading. Will measure at sunset as you suggested.

    Brad, good suggestion. I tested the pH of tab water and it's 8.0 reading which is the same as my old home. Must be the green water then. Let me eliminate that first and take more reading later after water clear up.

    Steve


    Quote Originally Posted by six6guy View Post
    Great post Roddy.

    I'd like to hear more about the new source water. Where is it from? Have you had it tested?

    Brad

  15. #15
    Cody Turtle's Avatar
    Cody Turtle is offline
    Cody Turtle
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SF Bay Area, Ca
    Posts
    293
    I have had a high ph for a while as well. I get 9 out of the tap 8.6 -9 in the pond. I get a 0 for gh no matter what test kit I try and a kh of 55(3 drops) in the pond. Here is some extra in info for the sf bay area
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Cody Turtle
    watercolorkoi.com

  16. #16
    Roddy Conrad's Avatar
    Roddy Conrad is offline
    Roddy Conrad
    has not specified a status.
    The Koiphen Chemist
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Charleston, WV, USA
    Posts
    3,211
    Low GH will frequently give high pH and terrible koi coloration as well. If the GH is zero, add one pound of calcium chloride flake and one pound of Epsom salt per 1000 gallons and watch the pH drop and the koi coloration improve tremendously.
    President Truman said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." And he said if you want a friend on the AKCA board, better take your dog to the board meeting with you.

  17. #17
    Roddy Conrad's Avatar
    Roddy Conrad is offline
    Roddy Conrad
    has not specified a status.
    The Koiphen Chemist
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Charleston, WV, USA
    Posts
    3,211
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen View Post
    Thank you, Roddy. I measured pH this morning and it's 9.1 reading. Will measure at sunset as you suggested.

    Brad, good suggestion. I tested the pH of tab water and it's 8.0 reading which is the same as my old home. Must be the green water then. Let me eliminate that first and take more reading later after water clear up.

    Steve
    If the pH is already 9 at sunrise, you probably need some calcium chloride flake to bring pH down and stabilize it. I suggest a pound per 1000 gallons, if you see the water turn white that is a good thing because calcium carbonate is precipitating which is how soluble calcium drops pH of a pond. The milky water after addition of calcium chloride flake to a pond with high pH should clear in one to two days, at that point pH should be well below 9.
    President Truman said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." And he said if you want a friend on the AKCA board, better take your dog to the board meeting with you.

  18. #18
    necjeb is offline
    necjeb
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    297
    I also have high ph atleast 9.0. tap is 7.5 at first but with a little air shoots right up. How often would these need to be added to keep the ph below ?

  19. #19
    CHICHI's Avatar
    CHICHI is offline
    CHICHI
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,836
    Quote Originally Posted by necjeb View Post
    I also have high ph atleast 9.0. tap is 7.5 at first but with a little air shoots right up. How often would these need to be added to keep the ph below ?

    If your Supply Water has an acceptable PH (which mine didn`t) when My Pond Water hit 10 then removing the causes of CO2 depletion diurnally such as turning off the Air Killing all the Algae and reducing Pollutants to as close to zero as is feasible along with partial Shading will help ..

    I tried buffering both the GH and KH (up to 10+17 respectively ) but it still took 35 KH dH points to bring the PH back to 8.3 which was a completely unacceptable level of both Alkalinity and Hardness to me ..

    There are always Phyta present in Water even Tap Water which significantly influence PH

    Replacing the Water via a Flow Thru continuously for me kept my PH in line with Source ..

    Soft Water is the by far best Environment for Fresh Water Fish Per Se Koi especially with if possible a neutral PH

    The Worlds Rivers and Waterways (other than Tanganyika) are for a fact Soft Only Marine species otherwise are found in an 8 + PH with this in mind the closer we can achieve Pond Water Values to those found in Nature the better these will be for the Colour Growth and more importantly Health of all our Aquatic Pets

    http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/c...nSoftWater.flv





    http://www.cichlid-forum.com/article...ast_africa.php

  20. #20
    Steve Nguyen's Avatar
    Steve Nguyen is offline
    Steve Nguyen
    has not specified a status.
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    1,236
    I am am so tempted to setup a water softener for this pond. I think it's the way to grow fish here since hard water is line 20 ppm here.

    Steve

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •